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View Poll Results: How many have had a gear up landing
one 11 15.28%
more than one 0 0%
None 24 33.33%
not flying yet 37 51.39%
Voters: 72. You may not vote on this poll

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  #61  
Old 04-20-2017, 10:50 PM
John Slade's Avatar
John Slade John Slade is offline
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Default Re: How many Gear Up landings do we have?

Quote:
Was there significant repair required?
Not really. About 2 hours if I recall. Buly stayed and helped me with the repair. The plane was flying the next day with a much improved aluminum skid pad.

That said, I did have a second incident where the gear was lowered normally on final, but then collapsed with heavy braking.The repairs for this were considerably more extensive involving replace / repair of bulkheads and floor in the nose including larger (taller) vertical bulkheads (NG30's) as recommended by Nat to beef up the nose gear support. I'm not sure if this recommendation made it into a plans revision.

Last edited by John Slade : 04-23-2017 at 06:15 PM.
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  #62  
Old 04-23-2017, 05:30 PM
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Voidhawk9 Voidhawk9 is offline
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Default Re: How many Gear Up landings do we have?

The NG-30s (the big vertical bits you are referring to?) were made a bit taller in the middle in one of the later plans updates, as per the Cozy Newsletters.
I have Aerocanard plans (which don't incorporate the later Cozy revisions), which I updated according to the cozy revisions, including this. Haven't even finished the tub, yet, however.
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  #63  
Old 04-23-2017, 06:15 PM
John Slade's Avatar
John Slade John Slade is offline
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Default Re: How many Gear Up landings do we have?

Thanks. I corrected the post above.
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  #64  
Old 12-05-2017, 12:24 AM
DouglasHolub DouglasHolub is offline
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Default Re: How many Gear Up landings do we have?

My Velocity has a Wilhelmson electric nose lift. I forgot to lower the nose gear last month for the first time. I really felt like an idiot. I was at an uncontrolled field, and another aircraft was landing on the opposite end of the runway I was landing on. We got it straightened out on the radio, but that is what distracted me. Plus it was only my second landing after having not flown the plane in 7 years, and the low RPM alarm that usually reminds me to check the gear wasn't hooked up at the time. Excuses, excuses. I still felt like an idiot. To make matters worse, I had just applied full power for a touch and go when the nose dropped to the ground. I was startled (of course), and my first reaction was to hit the brakes. After a few seconds, I was surprised that it was taking so long to slow down, and then I remembered that I was at full throttle. If it wasn't for that, I think only my 1.5" thick nylon bumper would have been ground down, but it also wore down the fiberglass under the nose a little, enough to expose a little foam.

Besides the humiliation, it was a non-event. The lineman on the radio in the FBO told the aircraft following me on a long final to go around. He regretted telling him that when he saw me immediately lower my gear and taxi back to the hangar. A couple of plies of BID and I was flying again the next day.

But I don't what that to ever happen again. So I mounted a small wheel on my nose gear strut where the bumper normally goes. I think the extra drag compared to the bumper will be negligible, and I like knowing that, even if the worst happens again, I won't need to repair anything afterwards.

I scored the steel flanges and bent them up at 45 degrees so that when the wheel hit the ground, the flanges would bend and absorb some of the shock. I put a piece of foam rubber under the caster for shock absorption, too. The u-bolts are barely snug so that it will be easy for the flanges to bend when the wheel hits the ground. Pictures attached.

I don't visit the canard forums much, mostly just the Velocity forum, and I'm the only one there with a nose lift. So I'm not too familiar with what other folks are doing with their nose gear strut. Do people often mount a wheel there?

Doug Holub
2009 Velocity Standard FG w/ electric nose lift, 140 hours
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  #65  
Old 12-05-2017, 01:54 PM
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Andrew Anunson Andrew Anunson is offline
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Default Re: How many Gear Up landings do we have?

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Originally Posted by DouglasHolub View Post
and the low RPM alarm that usually reminds me to check the gear wasn't hooked up at the time...... So I'm not too familiar with what other folks are doing with their nose gear strut. Do people often mount a wheel there?
My first reaction would be to re-establish the low rpm / nose gear warning system.

I have seen talk of a wheel like yours through the years, but the talk always leads to reasons to not install the wheel....

1.) Is that a training wheel?
2.) EZ's park on the nose and need something there that prevents the plane from rolling away
3.) Gear up landings often lead to bulkhead damage... so its best to prevent them instead of making them acceptable

If your Velocity can handle the abrupt drop of 3 to 4 feet on to your nose wheel and not get damaged... then perhaps you have a good solution for your aircraft. I know my Cozy can't handle being dropped like that... so I'll need to prevent it as much as possible instead of adding a wheel.

How much did this affect your airspeeds?
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  #66  
Old 12-05-2017, 05:23 PM
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John Slade John Slade is offline
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Default Re: How many Gear Up landings do we have?

I agree. Prevention is better than cure.
My recommendation would be a voice warning. I installed a system that said "John. Lower the gear" (or half a dozen other things as triggered by sensors). Surprisingly cheap to implement. Its amazing how even professional pilots have demonstrated the ability to ignore a buzzer or light when busy or distracted. This is probably why the Air Force went with a "bitching betty" system.
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  #67  
Old 12-06-2017, 03:12 AM
ZG4Me ZG4Me is offline
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Default Re: How many Gear Up landings do we have?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DouglasHolub View Post
My Velocity has a Wilhelmson electric nose lift. I forgot to lower the nose gear last month for the first time.
Two kinds of Canard pilots. Those that have landed nose gear up, and those that will.
Quote:
Plus it was only my second landing after having not flown the plane in 7 years
Ya think maybe that was a factor? Just saying.
Quote:

I don't visit the canard forums much, mostly just the Velocity forum
I'm sorry to hear that Stick around, it's kinda nice here

I have no gear warning indicator, nor a canopy unlatched indicator. My FHC does not blow open if unlatched, ask me how I know this.

As to no nose gear warning, several reasons. One (or more) I may remedy as time moves on.

I started building before I was even a pilot. *ALL* I knew about small planes was a retractable nose wheel on the canard I was building. Then I started training...

CGUMPSS was drilled into me from day one, even on fixed gear 172/PA-28's. And I can tell you that more than once I looked to see if the gear was down on the 172. Seriously.

Per above, a small emergency battery and switch wired direct to the gear motor is on my to do list in case I have an electrical failure. So is a manual crank in case the gear motor grenades. And I may add a green LED light to indicate the nose gear is down. But for now, I know you can land a canard without extending the nose wheel. It's ugly, but can be done.

Glad you survived the incident with nothing more than a bruise to your ego. And if anybody asks, tell them that a gear up landing is part of your test procedure

Rick

PS: Ditch the nose strut 'wheel'. It'll add more drag than you may expect (IMHO), it looks fugly, and I suspect you will *never* land gear up again
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  #68  
Old 12-06-2017, 11:40 AM
LEZ1675 LEZ1675 is offline
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Default Re: How many Gear Up landings do we have?

I'm agreeing with Rick. But, I also started building 5 years before I started getting my PPL training, so I'm certainly not an expert.

Pre-landing checklist while on downwind - check the FLG window or Gear Down indicator.

Also, since you've done it once you probably won't do it again unless there's a failure.

That wheel may cause more problems if not on there tight and aligned correctly - if you land on that it may just steer you right off the runway! At least test it

Also it's pretty ugly, looks rigged up. Maybe mount it partly recessed where the bumper should go (and align it). If anything, make the new bumper out of nylon or something stout. Aluminum will just get hot and cause more structural problems I believe.

Glad you're OK, good luck
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Last edited by LEZ1675 : 12-06-2017 at 12:31 PM.
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