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  #151  
Old 12-13-2010, 12:10 PM
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Default Re: Cory Bird's Raw Epoxy Finishing Technique

I think a primer is almost always recommend by paint manufacturers just for the adhesive qualities of the primer. Check the mfg. for the paint you're going to use.

Plus, after the primer is on, you will see some pinholes that need fixing, or worse. However, the paint and primer make a good UV barrier. I believe most people are not using a dedicated UV barrier paint. I just used epoxy primer and urethane topcoat. -K
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  #152  
Old 12-13-2010, 01:17 PM
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Default Re: Cory Bird's Raw Epoxy Finishing Technique

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Originally Posted by Fernando Mendiolar View Post
Another builder told me a few days ago that if you paint your plane with poliurethanic paint there is no need to use a Primer or UV filter to protect fiberglass...Is that correct?
You always need primer in our case. Primer gives it an uniform base texture for the paint. Paint an area finished in micro and primer next to each other. They will have a different finish.
Also the primer is designed to stick well to the base and absorbs the paint layer for better adhesion. Don't cut corners on finishing. All these years of work will look like crap if your finish is poor.
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  #153  
Old 12-13-2010, 03:24 PM
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Default Re: Cory Bird's Raw Epoxy Finishing Technique

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Don't cut corners on finishing. All these years of work will look like crap if your finish is poor.
That's my plan. I have the Epoxy skim coat sanded to a smooth matte finish using 180. The next step will be primer. I won't be looking over my shoulder for pinholes, that's for sure.
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  #154  
Old 12-14-2010, 09:14 AM
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Default Re: Cory Bird's Raw Epoxy Finishing Technique

What's your epoxy coating Tom? I did the underside of my Cozy with MGS which gets rock hard. If I sanded too much to break through the epoxy I made a fast divet into the micro. Flat top surfaces are okay but I found doing the sides was a pain with leveling the drips.
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  #155  
Old 12-14-2010, 11:31 AM
Lynn Erickson Lynn Erickson is offline
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Default Re: Cory Bird's Raw Epoxy Finishing Technique

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fernando Mendiolar View Post
Another builder told me a few days ago that if you paint your plane with poliurethanic paint there is no need to use a Primer or UV filter to protect fiberglass...Is that correct?
use what the manufacture of the paint recommends or use what that builder says and you will get the same crappy results that he did. remember a great finish is only good if it stays on the airplane
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  #156  
Old 12-14-2010, 11:43 AM
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Default Re: Cory Bird's Raw Epoxy Finishing Technique

I used West 105 with the 206 hardener. I also used 4 coats (vs 5).
I did not have any issues as far as sanding through the epoxy finish coat. I did most of that work with the micro layer. I just kept after it, adding a little micro as needed until the only issue I had left was the pinholes.

I used a long board with 180 and just tried to get to a uniform matte finish. Looking down the wing in good light, any low spots showed up as glossy.
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  #157  
Old 09-04-2017, 08:42 AM
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Default Re: Cory Bird's Raw Epoxy Finishing Technique

I put up a 20 minute video on how to do this. Hope it helps.

https://youtu.be/43K1qwoHbnc

Sam
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  #158  
Old 09-04-2017, 12:20 PM
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Default Re: Cory Bird's Raw Epoxy Finishing Technique

Here's the write-up on this technique.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf CoreyBirdRawEpoxyFinish.pdf (159.1 KB, 23 views)
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  #159  
Old 09-06-2017, 11:24 AM
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Default Re: Cory Bird's Raw Epoxy Finishing Technique

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Originally Posted by TMann View Post
Here's the write-up on this technique.
Certainly Corey achieved a wonderful finish with this technique. This procedure started me wondering, " what do the auto body shops and more specifically those as committed to their projects as we are committed to our planes.... the individual auto restorers or boat hull re-finishers do" . I couldn't find any that use the epoxy wash technique. Instead they, at least the auto peops, use hi-build primers (usually 2K urethane) either sprayed on the sanded filler or (bite my tongue) rollered on.

It apparently creates a great bond, is very easily sanded, fills the sanding scratches (or weave depressions). Pin holes are handled by a 2K product called "Ice".

It seems so much easier.

What am I-- or they --missing??
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  #160  
Old 09-06-2017, 11:52 AM
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Default Re: Cory Bird's Raw Epoxy Finishing Technique

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What am I-- or they --missing??
Obviously weight is not a factor when using Bondo & Ice.
It has a place in aviation when creating plugs for molds but that's about it.
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  #161  
Old 09-06-2017, 02:30 PM
LEZ1675 LEZ1675 is offline
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Default Re: Cory Bird's Raw Epoxy Finishing Technique

Auto Body shops use Polyester Body filler, which is polyester resin and talcum powder. Also a bit wetter than thick micro, so it doesn't get so many pinholes. Also heavier due to the talcum powder mix. But lately they developed "lightweight filler", which has microballoons also, but is still pretty heavy.

I mixed polyester resin and micro to make molds with, but the dang stuff sets up really quick, so hard to get the micro mixed in quickly. Plus polyester resin shrinks a bit when it sets up


For pinholes, they use glazing putty, which is a paste-like thick primer that's squeegeed on. I used that on my plane, worked great and easy to sand. Probably the same weight as epoxy, maybe a bit lighter. Just apply a thin swipe to the spot that's needed and sand off easily in about 30 minutes.
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  #162  
Old 09-06-2017, 04:14 PM
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Default Re: Cory Bird's Raw Epoxy Finishing Technique

Something to keep in mind:
Epoxy will bind to Polyester/Vinyl Ester but Polyester/Vinyl Ester will not bind to epoxy.

So if you build your plane with Epoxy, don't count on a Polyester/Vinyl Ester product having the same lifespan as a epoxy based product.
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  #163  
Old 09-07-2017, 01:58 PM
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Default Re: Cory Bird's Raw Epoxy Finishing Technique

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMann View Post
Something to keep in mind:
Epoxy will bind to Polyester/Vinyl Ester but Polyester/Vinyl Ester will not bind to epoxy.

So if you build your plane with Epoxy, don't count on a Polyester/Vinyl Ester product having the same lifespan as a epoxy based product.

T.

Not using Bondo-- instead Aeropoxy light (epoxy-microspheres). After mixed handles much like Bondo except for curing time

One problem with A-poxy light is that with storage (either mine or ACS) the epoxy parts tend to separate from the micro and must be mixed thoroughly-- a real pain as one of the parts is incredibly viscous and doesn't want to mix easily -a paint stirring stick won't work and will break the other part, much less viscous doesn't want to mix easily either.

Aeropoxy recommends stirring before use. I have found separation in as little as a few days..

Mixing this product, as well as micro/epoxy will induce air bubbles (pinholes).
I have found that careful mixing-- to try to avoid air entrapment-- as well as careful application keeps these buggers to a minimum.

One technique for reducing the air that is mixed with the micro-epoxy is to take the lump of mixture that you are about to smear on the part and to put it on a flat surface and with a squeegee or the putty-knife device which you will use to apply it, smooth it on the surface several times to express much of the air that is incorporated in it. Then take the blob of de-airrated material and apply to the structure using a similar stroking technique.

Dentists routinely use a similar technique with some impression materials that tend to entrap air during mixing.

If you are adding micro to an existing microed surface that has some rough edges from the previous micro, sand them smooth as they will trap air when the second coat is laid over the rough edges.


When I try to rush the procedure, the pin holes come up. Otherwise they are few and minor and easily seen and corrected when primed-- or before.

If you have tons of pinholes, then, imnsho 5 complete applications of a skin of epoxy and necessary sanding may be an appropriate utilization of time, however if there are few, I would do that technique in local areas only if you like that technique.
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  #164  
Old 09-07-2017, 03:03 PM
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Default Re: Cory Bird's Raw Epoxy Finishing Technique

I used Waiter's formula of 1 part West 410 Microlight: 4 parts Microballoons
Mixed with West epoxy.
Spreads & sands real nice.
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