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Old 05-07-2017, 12:44 PM
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Default Nylaflow routing for Hidden Bellhorns

I'm getting ready to install the Nylaflow rudder cable conduit in the top of the wing, and need to make it the right shape so the cable lines up with the HIDDEN bellhorn which will be installed later. (I'm guessing that the plans' cable routing to the exterior bellhorns is not ideal for the hidden type due to the different geometry). Since the right shape might be difficult to accurately preduct without the bellhorn in position for reference, I am thinking of doing the following: DO NOT micro the bent outer segment of the conduit into its channel while laying it into the wing. Later, when the bellhorn is mounted, remove some foam around that 'loose' section of conduit, bend it to align with the bellhorn end, and put some micro (or spray foam) in the space around the conduit to hold it in the correct position.
Is this what others are doing? If not, does anyone see any issues with this approach, or is there a better method that's already being used?

Joe Polenek
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Old 05-07-2017, 09:20 PM
Marc Zeitlin Marc Zeitlin is offline
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Default Re: Nylaflow routing for Hidden Bellhorns

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Originally Posted by jpolenek View Post
I am thinking of doing the following: DO NOT micro the bent outer segment of the conduit into its channel while laying it into the wing. Later, when the bellhorn is mounted, remove some foam around that 'loose' section of conduit, bend it to align with the bellhorn end, and put some micro (or spray foam) in the space around the conduit to hold it in the correct position.
While what you're proposing would probably work OK, why not just follow the directions on page A2 of the hidden belhorn plans, which show you exactly what to do?
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Old 05-08-2017, 12:47 PM
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Default Re: Nylaflow routing for Hidden Bellhorns

Joe,
Its easy to route out the foam and micro from around the conduit later on with a dremel. You'll and up with what you propose... and loose 1" of conduit at the wing tip.
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Old 05-08-2017, 12:58 PM
LEZ1675 LEZ1675 is offline
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Default Re: Nylaflow routing for Hidden Bellhorns

I ran the conduit from the wing root to the lower lip of the aileron cutouts, then along that and out to the wing tip.

Since the nyloflow is floxed to the pocket in front of the aileron, I can change it later if needed.
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Old 05-08-2017, 02:02 PM
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Default Re: Nylaflow routing for Hidden Bellhorns

Joe, do you need the drawing to properly route the conduit?
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Old 05-08-2017, 03:57 PM
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Default Re: Nylaflow routing for Hidden Bellhorns

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Joe, do you need the drawing to properly route the conduit?
I just have the routing given in the Internal Rudder Belhorns pdf that Marc referred to.
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Old 05-08-2017, 05:03 PM
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Default Re: Nylaflow routing for Hidden Bellhorns

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why not just follow the directions on page A2 of the hidden belhorn plans, which show you exactly what to do?
I guess I haven't quite wrapped my head around that layout enough to just follow it and trust it all works out when the winglet gets attached (although I'm sure others have done so successfully.) For example, the attached sketch shows the path (in blue) that the end of the belhorn should follow as the rudder deflects around the hinge. It looks as though the cable would get quite misaligned relative to the tubing as the belhorn approaches full deflection. (I laid this out a little more accurately in CAD and it looks similar.) Is this what's actually supposed to happen?
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Old 05-08-2017, 09:43 PM
Marc Zeitlin Marc Zeitlin is offline
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Default Re: Nylaflow routing for Hidden Bellhorns

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... the attached sketch shows the path (in blue) that the end of the belhorn should follow as the rudder deflects around the hinge. It looks as though the cable would get quite misaligned relative to the tubing as the belhorn approaches full deflection...
It does misalign a bit, but if you hollow out the area as shown in the first sketch you posted, you can see that the nylaflow can move somewhat toward the TE. It works fine. Remember that you've got a thimble and nicopress sleeve in there to attach the cable to the belhorn - the belhorn itself never goes anywhere near as far as your blue line indicates, since the nicopress sleeve is the thing that will prevent further motion.

Don't forget the in-line springs somewhere - either aft of the firewall or near the rudder pedals - they're required.
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Old 05-08-2017, 10:12 PM
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Default Re: Nylaflow routing for Hidden Bellhorns

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the belhorn itself never goes anywhere near as far as your blue line indicates
About how many degrees is full rudder travel with internal belhorns?
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Old 05-09-2017, 12:01 AM
Marc Zeitlin Marc Zeitlin is offline
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Default Re: Nylaflow routing for Hidden Bellhorns

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About how many degrees is full rudder travel with internal belhorns?
It's the same as the maximum allowable with the external belhorns - about 4 - 4.5" at the lower TE, which works out to 22 - 26 degrees deflection. You don't want more than that or you may stall the winglet. At any rate, the internal belhorns limit you to about the 4" - 4.5" maximum.
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Old 05-09-2017, 01:33 PM
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Default Re: Nylaflow routing for Hidden Bellhorns

Not to hijack this thread, but Marc, a stalled winglet ?

Please explain more about this and what effect it might have during flight, thanks.
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Old 05-09-2017, 08:49 PM
Marc Zeitlin Marc Zeitlin is offline
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Default Re: Nylaflow routing for Hidden Bellhorns

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Not to hijack this thread, but Marc, a stalled winglet ?

Please explain more about this and what effect it might have during flight, thanks.
I don't know of any Long-EZ ever stalling a winglet, but if you slip a VE hard enough, with the original rudder travel (which was reduced from the original travel specification to something lower in a CP) the winglet stalls. It's just an airfoil, like the wing, and can stall if put at too high an AOA. And then you get some sort of aerobatic maneuver that you weren't expecting, then name of which I'm not familiar with. Snap roll, maybe. This is due to the fact that one winglet will have far less lift due to the stall than the other one, so there's a MAJOR assymetry. But in any case, you end up upside down, pointing down at the ground, according to those to whom it's occurred.

Now, maybe this is impossible in a Long-EZ, but in any case, more rudder travel than the specified amount doesn't make the rudder more effective for turns or slips, so there's no reason to have more.
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Old 06-15-2017, 11:15 PM
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Default Re: Nylaflow routing for Hidden Bellhorns

The internal belhorn plans say that the cable conduit "must pass as close as possible to the outboard tip of the ailerons...", otherwise "you will not be able to deploy the rudders to their full travel". That's as detailed as it gets. The sketch on page A-2 shows the conduit coming close to the outboard tip but does not specify the distance.

I'm guessing that what we are trying to do here is install the conduit outside of the wing's rudder cavity, so we have to keep it away from the foam that will later be cleared out. If so, then we can use the "aileron tip" template for BL 130.1 (given on drawing M-24 and described on page 19-3) to determine the minimum distance of the conduit from the aileron tip, which appears to be 1.5".

Is this what others have done?


Joe Polenek
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Old 06-16-2017, 02:31 PM
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Default Re: Nylaflow routing for Hidden Bellhorns

You just want the conduit to end up near the tip of the wing, 1-2" from the trailing edge, which will put the cable pointing right at the end of the bellhorn.

Putting the conduit close to the aileron cutout won't affect the deployment of the rudder at all, it just makes for a straight shot from the wing root to the rudder, less friction that way.

If you want to be sure where the end of the bellhorn will be, make a cardboard cutout of the winglet bottom, and draw out the rudder cutout and the bellhorn. Set that on top of the wing tip in the correct location and see where the end of the bellhorn is, and put the conduit end pointing right there.
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Old 06-16-2017, 05:26 PM
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Default Re: Nylaflow routing for Hidden Bellhorns

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Originally Posted by LEZ1675 View Post
Putting the conduit close to the aileron cutout won't affect the deployment of the rudder at all, it just makes for a straight shot from the wing root to the rudder, less friction that way.
That makes sense.

The issue I still see with running it "as close as possible to the outboard tip of the ailerons" is that if it gets close enough to the tip, the conduit would pass through the foam that later gets removed when clearing out the aileron cavity in the wing (the upper hatched area in my previous diagram). Wouldn't that get in the way of the internal glass-to-glass layup, and possibly interfere with the aileron hinge?

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