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Old 11-25-2017, 08:32 PM
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jpolenek jpolenek is offline
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Default Aileron inboard cut line

In Cozy plans Chapter 19 Page 8, figure 46 shows where the aileron is cut out of the wing. The drawing has an additional line and arrow near the inboard bottom cut line. (In the attached picture, I've colored it for contrast).
What is the significance of the extra arrow/line?

Joe Polenek
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Old 11-25-2017, 09:37 PM
LEZ1675 LEZ1675 is offline
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Default Re: Aileron inboard cut line

The edge of the foam joint is at an angle to the TE. The line indicated shows to cut the aileron at a 90 degree angle to the TE instead of following the angled foam joint. The other end of the aileron doesn't have a joint, and is also cut at 90 degrees to the TE.

Some builders have cut the aileron ends at a 67 degree (to the LE) angle in preparation for mounting aileron fences, which are parallel to the center line of the fuselage. Makes mounting the aileron fences much easier to the wings. This is the same angle as the vortilons as shown in the Roncz canard plans.

When measuring for the cut the length of the aileron, measure carefully the top and underside also, these measurements are critical. The top edge is where the hinges mount, and the bottom edge is where the counterweight rod mounts.
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Old 11-26-2017, 01:28 AM
ZG4Me ZG4Me is offline
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Default Re: Aileron inboard cut line

It's magic!

Consider a right triangle. The top cut line struck at 5.9" on a hypotenuse thingy, the bottom is cut on a 7.6" hypotenuse thingy. They won't line up.

Make the ailerons the same, attaching the winglets is based off this.

I had the same issue, as I suspect most builders do. See my notes, with pix, at http://cozy.zggtr.org/chap19/

Rick
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Old 11-26-2017, 11:33 AM
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Default Re: Aileron inboard cut line

Ok, it all makes sense that the top surface of the wing is cut differently than the bottom, given the aileron cross-section weíre trying to achieve. But this doesnít explain the additional line in the bottom drawing which runs parallel to the actual cut line, or the second arrow pointing to it at the trailing edge.
Iíve attached a portion of the drawing that further zooms in on this area. The colored arrow and line are the ones Iím talking about. (They are black in the plans but Iíve colored them for clarity). Do everyone elseís plans have this additional line and arrow? What do they mean?

Joe Polenek
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Last edited by jpolenek : 11-26-2017 at 12:04 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 11-26-2017, 12:15 PM
ZG4Me ZG4Me is offline
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Default Re: Aileron inboard cut line

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpolenek View Post
... Iíve attached a portion of the drawing that further zooms in on this area. The colored arrow and line are the ones Iím talking about. (They are black in the plans but Iíve colored them for clarity). Do everyone elseís plans have this additional line and arrow? What do they mean?

Joe Polenek
Thinking... Could this red line have been a hidden or phantom line when the plans were first drawn? Over time, and probably several copies of copies, the line ended up solid.

It does show on my 8.5x11 PDF chapter plans. My official Cozy4 plans are at airport, I'll take a peek at them later today.

Rick
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Old 11-27-2017, 11:01 AM
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Default Re: Aileron inboard cut line

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Originally Posted by ZG4Me View Post
Could this red line have been a hidden or phantom line when the plans were first drawn?
Yeah, that was my initial thought. However...
  1. The top and bottom chord-wise cuts (i.e. ends of the aileron) should essentially line up in plan view. But this extra line looks like itís offset by about 1".
  2. Even if it was a hidden line representing the cut on the other side, it wouldnít be parallel. The lines would converge at the trailing edge and obviate the need for that second arrow.
  3. There is no corresponding 'extra' line in the top view.

Joe Polenek
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Old 11-27-2017, 11:37 AM
Marc Zeitlin Marc Zeitlin is offline
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Default Re: Aileron inboard cut line

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpolenek View Post
In Cozy plans Chapter 19 Page 8, figure 46 shows where the aileron is cut out of the wing. The drawing has an additional line and arrow near the inboard bottom cut line. (In the attached picture, I've colored it for contrast).
What is the significance of the extra arrow/line?
It's bad drafting of a hidden line. The solid line and the one you've highlighted MUST meet at the TE - there's no way that the "same point" note can make any sense. It's just an indication that the top and bottom cuts don't start in the same place, but obviously they HAVE to end in the same place at the TE.

Bad drafting is all.
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Old Yesterday, 12:45 PM
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Default Re: Aileron inboard cut line

Two steps forward, one step back. I might have figured out what that extra line is supposed to represent. Itís where NOT to cut.

For convenience, I started cutting out the bottom aileron surface first, which was a mistake. You need to follow the order of the drawings in the plans and cut the top first because the top inboard cut line is the one that is 90 degrees to the trailing edge. That establishes the point where the inboard edge of the aileron meets the TE. I erroneously made the bottom cut line at 90 degrees to the TE, and since they canít both be 90 degrees, it will cause the top line to be out of whack. The attached photo is analogous to the lower part of figure 46 in the plans and shows the correct cut in black and the incorrect one in red. The longer red line is the one Iíve already made.

My advice to anyone who tends to goof things up like I do and hasnít yet gotten to this point in the build: white-out the extra line/arrow discussed previously in this thread, add the note ďcut top surface firstĒ at the top of figure 46, and another one beside the bottom inboard aileron cut line that says ďNOT 90 degrees!Ē.

As for the repair, Iím thinking of proceeding with the rest of the cuts per plans and then re-cutting this line in the correct position. The aileron side will be ok, and it will leave a wedge on the wing side which should be repairable when the area around the torque tube hole is glassed. Is there any reason why this might not work and I should just keep the existing cut and adjust the top one accordingly?

Joe Polenek
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Old Yesterday, 01:41 PM
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Default Re: Aileron inboard cut line

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpolenek View Post
As for the repair, Iím thinking of proceeding with the rest of the cuts per plans and then re-cutting this line in the correct position. The aileron side will be ok, and it will leave a wedge on the wing side which should be repairable when the area around the torque tube hole is glassed. Is there any reason why this might not work?
That is how I would do it.

It's crazy to think that these drawings would depict how to do it the wrong way as well as the right way. With today's technology, why not make the corrections and print on a plotter???

Anyway ..... good post. Good to see these issues/errors brought to light.
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Old Yesterday, 07:22 PM
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Default Re: Aileron inboard cut line

If I knew better when I built mine, I would have made my aileron cuts at an angle to facilitate mounting aileron fences.

I did cut the rudders on the horizontal plane, just looks cooler

Good luck
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