Canard Aviation Forum  

Go Back   Canard Aviation Forum > New Member Introductions
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-31-2017, 04:34 AM
ddillon ddillon is offline
Epoxy Fingerprints
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Orange, California
Posts: 274
Default Newbie.... Again

I haven't logged into or participated in any canard stuff in over a decade. To my surprise, my account and password still works.

So, I'm a newbie all over again. 10 years + ago I was diligently working on a Cozy MkIV, but efforts came to a screeching halt. But, I still have what I built so-far and a ton of decade-old foam, glass, and epoxy to restart the project.

Question... how does age? Still good if stored in original sealed containers in the attic of a California garage?

__________________
Daniel Dillon
Cozy Mark IV #1353 builder (weekends); Semiconductor Field Applications Enginer (weekdays).
Current status as of April '07:
*Chapter 4, 5 - completed
*Chapter 6 - in progres, fuselage assembled without a bottom, step 1 completed.

Continuing to make progress every weekend.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-31-2017, 12:19 PM
LEZ1675 LEZ1675 is offline
Bill Welter
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 553
Default Re: Newbie.... Again

Welcome back!

Everything should be good still except the epoxy. They have better epoxies these days anyway.

Check the glass to ensure that critters haven't been chewing on it. Micro and flox will be OK if sealed up.

Get back to it, man!
__________________
Bill Welter
Colorado Springs, CO
Long-EZ, Supercharged 13B

Last edited by LEZ1675 : 01-01-2018 at 02:28 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-31-2017, 01:10 PM
argoldman argoldman is online now
Rich
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: chicago area
Posts: 1,176
Default Re: Newbie.... Again

Welcome back daniel

The other thing i would evaluate is the state of the fabric. How was it stored? Did it become moisture contaminated?

The glass does not bond to the epoxy directly. The manufacturer (weaver) puts a chemical (kinda like primer) called,i believe, sizing which enables the epoxy or whatever resin to “. Bond” with the glass in the fabric.

This material is subject to degredation by moisture As well as probably, other atmospheric contaminants.

If the glass was well sealed from the elements, it will probably be OK (emphasis on the word probably. You might want to make some test cupons and either test them or have them tested.

Have fun building (again)
Rich
__________________
CANARDLY CONTAIN MYSELF
Rich
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-01-2018, 01:00 AM
ZG4Me ZG4Me is offline
N14ZG reserved
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Colorado, KLMO nearest
Posts: 1,023
Default Re: Newbie.... Again

Epoxy is probably toast, the hardener anyway. Might still be usable for non structural applications though. Do a test coupon, see if it hardens up more/less as expected. Replacing old epoxy is cheap, in the grand scheme of things.

Glass has an unlimited shelf life, providing it was kept dry. If it received *any* water damage, toss it.

Foam is variable. Styrofoam doesn't take UV rays very well, but damaged areas can be cut off and the remaining block used as if nothing happened.

Finished my build a year ago, I have 100 hours (and first annual done ) on the HOBBS now.

Keep building, you will NOT be disappointed when you get your airworthiness.

Rick
__________________
Rick Hall; MK-IV plans #1477; my canard at: http://cozy.zggtr.org/ My hobby at www.zggtr.org/
Build status: It flies! Airworthiness 10/7/2016.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-08-2018, 02:38 AM
ddillon ddillon is offline
Epoxy Fingerprints
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Orange, California
Posts: 274
Default Re: Newbie.... Again

Quote:
Originally Posted by LEZ1675 View Post
Welcome back!

Everything should be good still except the epoxy. They have better epoxies these days anyway.

Check the glass to ensure that critters haven't been chewing on it. Micro and flox will be OK if sealed up.

Get back to it, man!
Thanks... I got to thinking that the fuselage (so far, just bulkheads and sides) are all glassed on the inside but the exterior sides have been open to the air for ten+ years. Any problems with that? I can't imagine so.. but worth asking. Been storing foam for the rest of the project for countless years also now.

I guess that epoxy is dead.. even though I never opened the bottles. Is it still good for non-structural stuff? Armrests, covers, wheel pants.. whatever?

What is the best epoxy to use now? And, if I had started with MGS can I switch mid-build?
__________________
Daniel Dillon
Cozy Mark IV #1353 builder (weekends); Semiconductor Field Applications Enginer (weekdays).
Current status as of April '07:
*Chapter 4, 5 - completed
*Chapter 6 - in progres, fuselage assembled without a bottom, step 1 completed.

Continuing to make progress every weekend.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-08-2018, 02:40 AM
ddillon ddillon is offline
Epoxy Fingerprints
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Orange, California
Posts: 274
Default Re: Newbie.... Again

Quote:
Originally Posted by argoldman View Post
Welcome back daniel

The other thing i would evaluate is the state of the fabric. How was it stored? Did it become moisture contaminated?

The glass does not bond to the epoxy directly. The manufacturer (weaver) puts a chemical (kinda like primer) called,i believe, sizing which enables the epoxy or whatever resin to “. Bond” with the glass in the fabric.

This material is subject to degredation by moisture As well as probably, other atmospheric contaminants.

If the glass was well sealed from the elements, it will probably be OK (emphasis on the word probably. You might want to make some test cupons and either test them or have them tested.

Have fun building (again)
Rich
Very good advise.. thank you. I forgot all about the sizing. It has been stored for all this time inside a wooden box/fabric cutting table thing I built. California weather.. hot garages.. moisture not a problem.
__________________
Daniel Dillon
Cozy Mark IV #1353 builder (weekends); Semiconductor Field Applications Enginer (weekdays).
Current status as of April '07:
*Chapter 4, 5 - completed
*Chapter 6 - in progres, fuselage assembled without a bottom, step 1 completed.

Continuing to make progress every weekend.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-08-2018, 02:44 AM
ddillon ddillon is offline
Epoxy Fingerprints
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Orange, California
Posts: 274
Default Re: Newbie.... Again

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZG4Me View Post
Epoxy is probably toast, the hardener anyway. Might still be usable for non structural applications though. Do a test coupon, see if it hardens up more/less as expected. Replacing old epoxy is cheap, in the grand scheme of things.

Glass has an unlimited shelf life, providing it was kept dry. If it received *any* water damage, toss it.

Foam is variable. Styrofoam doesn't take UV rays very well, but damaged areas can be cut off and the remaining block used as if nothing happened.

Finished my build a year ago, I have 100 hours (and first annual done ) on the HOBBS now.

Keep building, you will NOT be disappointed when you get your airworthiness.

Rick

Nice... feeling re-motivated. As long as the foam that is on the aircraft now isn't bad, then It's all good.

I'll consider my epoxy dead. I'll test my glass. And after a major garage clean-out, maybe I'll start up again.

I have to do a school science project with my 9 year old... maybe it might be that learning-piece that we all built at the very onset of our build. Get him excited about being my helper and get me back into the groove again.
__________________
Daniel Dillon
Cozy Mark IV #1353 builder (weekends); Semiconductor Field Applications Enginer (weekdays).
Current status as of April '07:
*Chapter 4, 5 - completed
*Chapter 6 - in progres, fuselage assembled without a bottom, step 1 completed.

Continuing to make progress every weekend.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-08-2018, 10:05 AM
TMann's Avatar
TMann TMann is offline
Got Foam?
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 3,609
Default Re: Newbie.... Again

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddillon View Post
And after a major garage clean-out, maybe I'll start up again.
My wife really liked it when my EAA Chapter had it's project tour.
That meant I had to clean up my work area.

It took me weeks to find stuff after that.
__________________
T Mann
Long-EZ/20B Infinity R/G Chpt 18
Velocity/RG Restoration
EAA #390365
Got Foam?
Mann's Airplane Factory
We add rocket's to everything!
4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, 13, 14, 19, 20 DONE
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-09-2018, 02:09 AM
CBarber's Avatar
CBarber CBarber is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 1,256
Default Re: Newbie.... Again

I'm not sure you need to write off the epoxy. Seems I recall folks, including epoxy guru Gary Hunter, state epoxy does not really go bad, even if it changes color or even crystallizes (heat may bring it back). Manufactures may even include expiration dates to CYA and sell product but barring foreign contamination it may be fine. Building is expensive enough without dismissing good product.

Don't take this as gospel but may be worth research. IIRC, you can mix up a batch, let it cure and then do the scratch test on it as a first step analysis.

I know the topic has been discussed somewhat routinely over the years.

All that being said, you may have better piece of mind just using it for non structural, which is what I did with some older product my hangar mate had. Worked fine for that.
__________________
Chris Barber
Houston, Texas

"We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress & the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution"

Abraham Lincoln

Who is John Galt?
Reply With Quote
Reply

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:09 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.