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  #1  
Old 12-18-2017, 02:56 PM
LEZ1675 LEZ1675 is offline
Bill Welter
 
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Default Mazda Rotary 13B Boost ?

Fellow 13b turbo/supercharger users, how much boost are you running over 30 inches?

Also, which fuel/ignition controller are you using?

I'm running 14 inches (7 psi) over local atmospheric pressure, max, and I'm having a few tuning issues trying to get used to the EC3/EM3 tuning method.

Since the standard injector pulsewidths and timing settings are hidden, and the only settings available are offsets from the standard settings, I'm having trouble verifying:

Increased injector pulsewidth under boost
Actual timing retard under boost (0.25 degrees retard per 1 inch of boost)

Also, the EC3 fuel Injection Map only allows for changes up to 36.9 InHg, which is OK here ( 24 inches at the field + 14 inches boost = 38), but I would have to be careful taking off from lower airfields. Only 36.9" ?


Thanks
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Last edited by LEZ1675 : 12-19-2017 at 11:03 AM.
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  #2  
Old 12-19-2017, 12:05 AM
argoldman argoldman is offline
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Default Re: Mazda Rotary 13B Boost ?

Out of curiosity,
Was your ec3 set up for turbo?

I believe that there was a difference

Perhaps Tracy will respond
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  #3  
Old 12-19-2017, 10:54 AM
LEZ1675 LEZ1675 is offline
Bill Welter
 
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Default Re: Mazda Rotary 13B Boost ?

Hi Rich, yup I got the turbo EC3, with the 2-BAR MAP sensor.

Maybe the hidden fuel map will go higher in boost, but there's no adjustment above 36.9"

I wrote Tracy, will see what he says

Thanks
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  #4  
Old 12-19-2017, 11:19 AM
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Default Re: Mazda Rotary 13B Boost ?

Bill, are you keeping your bird up at KFLY?
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Old 12-19-2017, 12:26 PM
LEZ1675 LEZ1675 is offline
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Default Re: Mazda Rotary 13B Boost ?

Hi Tom, yup still at KFLY, getting everything all tuned, getting ready for first flight.
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Old 12-19-2017, 03:17 PM
LEZ1675 LEZ1675 is offline
Bill Welter
 
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Default Re: Mazda Rotary 13B Boost ?

Tracy says that the injector pulsewidths are determined by the base map table, which we can't see.

The correction factor at 36.9" is used for all pressures from 36.9" up to 60", so if the fuel is close at 36.9 it will also be OK at higher pressures also.

I was overthinking this because I'm used to programming ECUs where the tuner changes the actual injector pulsewidth values for a given RPM and pressure. But the base maps aren't visible in the EC3, just the correction factor to the base maps.

Whew! Everything seems to be OK


How much Max boost is everyone running in their Rotaries ?

Thanks
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  #7  
Old 12-20-2017, 09:01 AM
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John Slade John Slade is offline
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Default Re: Mazda Rotary 13B Boost ?

42 inches was my max boost on take-off, IIRC.
I added 3mm "indestructible" seals from Tracy to allow higher boost, and I used (use) high compression (non turbo) rotors.

Last edited by John Slade : 12-20-2017 at 09:23 AM.
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  #8  
Old 01-15-2018, 07:41 PM
LEZ1675 LEZ1675 is offline
Bill Welter
 
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Default Re: Mazda Rotary 13B Boost ?

Well, I wanted to see exactly what the EC3 was doing, so I built a bench-test setup out of a 13b front cover and trigger wheel, and plugged that onto the plane's wiring harness. Unplugged the injectors and substituted 10-watt resistors and LEDs. I could run the drill at varying RPMs and put vacuum or pressure on the hoses going to the MAP sensors, then watch the injector LEDs blink and monitor pulsewidth with an O'scope, and check timing with a timing light, all without starting the engine!

Just as Tracy said, it would increase injector pulsewidth all the way up to 50 InHG , and it would retard the timing under boost. So it's working as expected!
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Old 01-17-2018, 11:22 AM
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Default Re: Mazda Rotary 13B Boost ?

Good to know. I got Tracy's EC3 right about the time he announced his retirement. It's nice to have the ignition and fuel injection control wrapped up into one single package.
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Old 02-03-2018, 04:12 PM
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John Slade John Slade is offline
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Default Re: Mazda Rotary 13B Boost ?

Quote:
Well, I wanted to see exactly what the EC3 was doing, so I built a bench-test setup out of a 13b front cover and trigger wheel, and plugged that onto the plane's wiring harness. Unplugged the injectors and substituted 10-watt resistors and LEDs. I could run the drill at varying RPMs and put vacuum or pressure on the hoses going to the MAP sensors, then watch the injector LEDs blink and monitor pulsewidth with an O'scope, and check timing with a timing light, all without starting the engine!
Impressive! I wish you'd been around when I set mine up (largely by trial and error plus personal visits to and from Tracy). I'd have gladly paid for that kind of expertise.
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Old 02-04-2018, 10:39 AM
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CBarber CBarber is offline
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Default Re: Mazda Rotary 13B Boost ?

Tracy's retirement may have been what prompted me to finally abandon my rotary, even though I loved it and miss it on my project (it sits in my hangar). I guess it was more psychological but so it was.
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  #12  
Old 02-06-2018, 11:58 AM
LEZ1675 LEZ1675 is offline
Bill Welter
 
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Default Re: Mazda Rotary 13B Boost ?

Thanks for the support, guys.

When I started building, Tracy had a good business going and was making EC3s, EM3s and two different redrives, and it was quite a good time for anyone wanting to use a 13B.

Now, Tracy is retired, the business is gone and anyone with a 13b is kinda stuck, hoping that nothing electronic fails and needs repair. That would mean re-engineering the EFI/Ignition using a Haltech or something, and no redundancy.

It can be done, there are ECU manufacturers out there that build reliable boxes. But a new builder that wants to run a 13b would be in a pickle due to the lack of a redrive or aircraft capable ECU. It would be much more difficult nowadays to build a 13b system.

If anyone has a redrive to sell, let me know, I might get one for a spare.

Good luck to all...
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Old 02-06-2018, 12:50 PM
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Default Re: Mazda Rotary 13B Boost ?

.....Zooom....Zoooommmm.......
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Old 02-07-2018, 11:17 AM
LEZ1675 LEZ1675 is offline
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Default Re: Mazda Rotary 13B Boost ?

Tom, you got the EC3, did you also get EM3 to monitor engine parameters and change settings in the EC3 ?

How's that "free" Velocity coming along?
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  #15  
Old 02-07-2018, 12:15 PM
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Default Re: Mazda Rotary 13B Boost ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LEZ1675 View Post
Tom, you got the EC3, did you also get EM3 to monitor engine parameters and change settings in the EC3 ?
Yep, got them as the doors were closing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LEZ1675 View Post
How's that "free" Velocity coming along?
Most expensive "free" I've ever experienced.
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